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	<title>Comments on: Censorship</title>
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	<description>From the Dragon to the Apple- A Sinophile in New York</description>
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		<title>By: Tong</title>
		<link>http://mattschiavenza.com/2008/06/17/censorship/comment-page-1/#comment-18821</link>
		<dc:creator>Tong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not all Chinese are content, censorship blacks out the disgruntled voices. Otherwise &quot;Harmony&quot; would not be promoted. For Chinese, there have always been a right side and a wrong side of the track to be on, so to speak. 30 years ago, the uneducated and poor were in, and now, it is the money and power&#039;s turn. The voices of those who were/are benefited from the government&#039;s policy will always be heard. The question is what about those who are/were off the wagon? 

Even if all Chinese are content, it is not a reason to turn down something Chinese had never had or experienced. As recent as 30 years ago, there were not much of a material life in China, everything was rationed, and materialism was condemned. Was most of the Chinese content? Probably. Now material life is within reach, materialism seems to on the front and center of Chinese&#039;s mind. It is probably even proportion to Chinese&#039;s happy index. If that is any indication, wouldn&#039;t Chinese grab &quot;freedom&quot; with both hands when we finally have it?

Having said all that, I don&#039;t agree with western countries putting on a tough front on Chinese human right issues, it is ineffective and frankly, you just cannot criticize on one hand and ask for a share of Chinese market on the other. The potential way to change for Chinese, as it seems always, relies on the peasants, and their voices reaching educated middle class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all Chinese are content, censorship blacks out the disgruntled voices. Otherwise &#8220;Harmony&#8221; would not be promoted. For Chinese, there have always been a right side and a wrong side of the track to be on, so to speak. 30 years ago, the uneducated and poor were in, and now, it is the money and power&#8217;s turn. The voices of those who were/are benefited from the government&#8217;s policy will always be heard. The question is what about those who are/were off the wagon? </p>
<p>Even if all Chinese are content, it is not a reason to turn down something Chinese had never had or experienced. As recent as 30 years ago, there were not much of a material life in China, everything was rationed, and materialism was condemned. Was most of the Chinese content? Probably. Now material life is within reach, materialism seems to on the front and center of Chinese&#8217;s mind. It is probably even proportion to Chinese&#8217;s happy index. If that is any indication, wouldn&#8217;t Chinese grab &#8220;freedom&#8221; with both hands when we finally have it?</p>
<p>Having said all that, I don&#8217;t agree with western countries putting on a tough front on Chinese human right issues, it is ineffective and frankly, you just cannot criticize on one hand and ask for a share of Chinese market on the other. The potential way to change for Chinese, as it seems always, relies on the peasants, and their voices reaching educated middle class.</p>
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		<title>By: matt_schiavenza</title>
		<link>http://mattschiavenza.com/2008/06/17/censorship/comment-page-1/#comment-18733</link>
		<dc:creator>matt_schiavenza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattschiavenza.com/?p=272#comment-18733</guid>
		<description>Pfeffer,
You&#039;re right- China has never claimed that it is a fully developed country, and I should have made that more clear in my post. My point was that when evaluating its development, human rights and press freedom ought to be considered alongside economic growth.

Of course, Western countries are not in position to lecture China, but I wasn&#039;t speaking as a representative of the US, just as a resident of China frustrated with the persistence of its police state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pfeffer,<br />
You&#8217;re right- China has never claimed that it is a fully developed country, and I should have made that more clear in my post. My point was that when evaluating its development, human rights and press freedom ought to be considered alongside economic growth.</p>
<p>Of course, Western countries are not in position to lecture China, but I wasn&#8217;t speaking as a representative of the US, just as a resident of China frustrated with the persistence of its police state.</p>
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		<title>By: Pffefer</title>
		<link>http://mattschiavenza.com/2008/06/17/censorship/comment-page-1/#comment-18392</link>
		<dc:creator>Pffefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;China&#039;s impressive growth has been in spite of its government, not because of it.&quot;

I am not so sure, Matt. It is pretty clear to me that it was the Chinese government that spearheaded and steered the economic growth. Being democratic does not necessarily bring this sort of impressive growth that we have seen in China. There are quite a few examples out there. 

The other thing is, I don&#039;t know who has been telling you and those who believe China is not a backward developing country (and thus threatens the United States and the west), but the Chinese government and most Chinese have no doubt about the fact that it is still a third world developing country which in many ways is a backward country. According to the Chinese government, China will become a &quot;moderately developed&quot; country by 2080, 72 years from now. By the Chinese government&#039;s projection, the gap between China and the highly developed west then will become slightly smaller. 

I do agree with you that censorship is retarded and China can live without. As to democracy in China, if the Chinese themselves are content, who is the US or anybody else to tell the Chinese that they need to do this and that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;China&#8217;s impressive growth has been in spite of its government, not because of it.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not so sure, Matt. It is pretty clear to me that it was the Chinese government that spearheaded and steered the economic growth. Being democratic does not necessarily bring this sort of impressive growth that we have seen in China. There are quite a few examples out there. </p>
<p>The other thing is, I don&#8217;t know who has been telling you and those who believe China is not a backward developing country (and thus threatens the United States and the west), but the Chinese government and most Chinese have no doubt about the fact that it is still a third world developing country which in many ways is a backward country. According to the Chinese government, China will become a &#8220;moderately developed&#8221; country by 2080, 72 years from now. By the Chinese government&#8217;s projection, the gap between China and the highly developed west then will become slightly smaller. </p>
<p>I do agree with you that censorship is retarded and China can live without. As to democracy in China, if the Chinese themselves are content, who is the US or anybody else to tell the Chinese that they need to do this and that?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jascha</title>
		<link>http://mattschiavenza.com/2008/06/17/censorship/comment-page-1/#comment-18349</link>
		<dc:creator>Jascha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattschiavenza.com/?p=272#comment-18349</guid>
		<description>Ah, precious wikipedia, how I missed thee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, precious wikipedia, how I missed thee.</p>
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