Comments on: Words Fail Me (And You)

By: Pffefer

Pffefer — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:36:45 +0000

That’s an observation that I don’t agree with. I find East Asians (CJK) speak pretty much the same level of English in terms of influency.

Taiwanese speak no better English than the mainlanders.

By: matt_schiavenza

matt_schiavenza — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:02:57 +0000

Yes- I think Chinese people speak worse English on average than Koreans and Japanese because of the difficulty they have in going overseas.

By: Pffefer

Pffefer — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:08:27 +0000

True, but again, what does it have to do with learning English? Are you saying the Chinese speak worse English than the Koreans and the Japanese because it is harder for them to travel overseas?

By: matt_schiavenza

matt_schiavenza — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:14:18 +0000

No, it’s far simpler than that. I’m referring to things like the difficulty many Chinese citizens have in obtaining a passport from their danwei or private company and receiving permission to go overseas, even if it were financially feasible. Several people I’ve met in China had wanted to go abroad but the bureaucratic hassles (on both sides) were so great that they eventually gave up, frustrated. In Japan and Korea, citizens don’t face nearly as many institutional hurdles so can move about freely. This isn’t a cultural thing so much as a matter of bureaucracy.

By: Pffefer

Pffefer — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:06:59 +0000

Matt, I am interested in knowing what “institutional reasons” you are referring to? Are you saying Chinese are systematically discriminated in English-speaking countries? Compared to other non-English speakers such as the Japanese, Koreans and Russians, are the Chinese in a disadvantageous situation?

By: matt_schiavenza

matt_schiavenza — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:43:50 +0000

Chinese people wishing to study abroad, work, or simply travel within an English-speaking country have greater difficulty doing so for institutional reasons, thus they’re denied the opportunity to practice what their English in an atmosphere of native speakers. This has a detrimental effect on their English especially in terms of speaking, listening, and modern idiomatic expressions. This is my hypothesis, at least.

By: Pffefer

Pffefer — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:43:48 +0000

Matt, that’s probably true, but what does it have to do with learning English?

By: matt_schiavenza

matt_schiavenza — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:50:17 +0000

Matthew, excellent point about the Chinese entry-level exams, and I think what I attributed to cultural factors may just be a rational response to incentives on the part of the students.

Pfeffer, I disagree that the reason Americans have a far easier time traveling and living overseas can be neatly attributed to our ability to speak English. I was referring to the bureaucratic obstacles the average Chinese citizen must overcome even to sniff at the opportunities most Americans take for granted. Put it this way: a European who speaks no English has an easier time living and working abroad than a Chinese person fluent in English.

By: Pffefer

Pffefer — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:55:39 +0000

The truth is, most Chinese students are FORCED to learn English and they have no desire to get beyond passing the exams. When you have English as one of the subjects, and you have to pass the exams to advance, naturally you focus on things that carry you through the exams. Grammar. Volcab.

It’s not really about the so-called “Chinese method of teaching English”. Learning a language during class is one thing, practicing it is another. Just like those Americans who forgot most of Spanish that they learned in high school, most Chinese students have no way of practicing and using English outside the classroom.

“Compared to Chinese people, Americans have a far easier time traveling and living overseas”, that’s because you happen to speak English.

By: Matthew Stinson

Matthew Stinson — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 00:52:53 +0000

Before excess blame is laid at the feet of IELTS/TOEFL, I don’t think they’re the cause of China’s vocabulary-mania, since only a handful of students will take those tests. Instead, the main reason university students across the board “marry their dictionaries” is to pass the mandatory CET-4 exam and its bigger brother, the CET-6 (which is only mandatory if you want to get a postgraduate degree).

Matt, what you said about the cultural insulation of Chinese English teachers and the emphasis on rote memorization rings true, but after teaching here for almost four years I think the focus on the CET tests is why Chinese English development seems so incomplete to those of us used to “whole-language” learning.

For those who don’t know, the CET-4 has three main components — reading comprehension, listening, and composition — and no speaking component. Speaking, if you want better certification, is optional, and most students won’t take that test.

Now, it doesn’t take a genius to see that in all the CET classes the students take at university and in training centers, and with all the CET books they study, the oral component of their English suffers greatly. Most student recitations one can hear at a Chinese university are students practicing CET vocabulary. I rarely hear them practicing set phrases in a way that builds language. Instead, it’s just … words, words, words.

Until the CET is reformed, vocabulary-centric English learning will be the rule in China.